On-the-Record Press Gaggle by White House National Security Communications Advisor John Kirby
Via Teleconference
12:25 P.M. EDT
MODERATOR: Hey, everyone. Hope everyone enjoyed the long weekend. Kirby has a few words here at the top, and then we’ll get into as many questions as we can.
MR. KIRBY: Hey, everybody. Thanks for joining.
First, on the Middle East. As you all know, on Saturday, in a tunnel in Gaza, Israeli forces recovered six bodies of hostages that were held by Hamas, including an American citizen, Hersh Goldberg-Polin. He and five others were executed. Hamas is responsible for their deaths. And as the President said, Hamas leaders will pay for their crimes.
As you know, the President also had a chance to speak with Hersh’s parents, Jon and Rachel, and — as did the Vice President — and they grieve with them and with all the families of everyone killed.
Yesterday, the President and Vice President had a chance to meet in the White House Situation Room with the U.S. hostage deal negotiation team to talk about next steps on our ongoing effort to secure the release of the hostages and to hold Hamas leaders fully accountable.
As for the status of those talks, over the past couple of days, we’ve heard a lot from Israel, we’ve heard some from Hamas, and we continue to consult with our co-mediators, Qatar and Egypt.
Just, again, to restate it: We’re working on a proposal that will secure the release of the remaining hostages and will include massive and immediate relief for the people of Gaza, and also result in a stoppage of the fighting.
Now, I’ve seen some press reporting out there about “take it or leave it” and “final proposal” and “text this” and “text that.” All I’m telling you is our team is still working on trying to get this to closure, to try to conclude a deal that achieves all of those three things.
And I’m sure you’re all curious as to what that proposal says and what’s in it, and I’m sure you’re also not going to be surprised by the fact that I’m not going to get into that detail.
What I can tell you is we are still actively working on this. We are still in constant consultations with Qatar, Egypt, and Israel. And of course, Qatar and Egypt are in touch with Hamas. And we’re going to do what we can to get it done.
I can’t tell you what the timeline looks like. I can’t tell you, if we get it done, exactly what every little — every little paragraph and context of the final proposal would look like. All I can tell you is those are the three goals, and that’s what we’re still driving at, and we’re still actively engaged in the effort.
The President himself is personally involved in working with our team and in working with leaders around the world to secure this deal, and that’s what we’re focused on. And the killing over the weekend just underscores the sense of urgency that we have to have in order to get it to closure.
If I can switch to Venezuela.
The United States joins several of our international partners in condemning the unjustified arrest warrant of Edmundo Gonzalez in Venezuela for allegedly inciting violence — which, of course, is not accurate.
This is just another example of Mr. Maduro’s efforts to maintain power by force and to refuse to recognize that Mr. Gonzalez won the most votes on the 28th of July.
So, in coordination with those partners, we’re considering a range of options to demonstrate to Mr. Maduro and his representatives that their actions in Venezuela will have consequences.
Now, I don’t have anything to announce today, but as you’ve seen, we’ve already enforced and calibrated our sanctions towards Venezuela in light of overall U.S. interests and the actions and non-actions that are taken by Maduro and his representatives.
In fact, just yesterday, the U.S. Department of Justice announced the seizure of an aircraft used by Mr. Maduro and his representatives, based on sanctions and export control violations that were already in place. This action taken by Justice was really done in the overall direction of our broader bilateral engagement with Venezuela.
And then, quickly on Ukraine.
Sadly, we have to yet again offer our deepest condolences to the people of Ukraine after another massive Russian strike, this time in a town called Poltova [sic] — I’m sorry, Poltava — which killed more than 40 people and wounded at least 180 others. Just another horrific reminder of the extent of Mr. Putin’s brutality towards the people of Ukraine and the manner in which he’s trying to punish them for his own invasion of that country, going after critical infrastructure and trying to make it harder just for them to live and to pursue livelihoods.
As President Biden has made clear, our support for Ukraine remains unshakable, and we’re going to continue to be focused on strengthening their military and their air defenses against these kinds of assaults and attacks.
As you saw just 10 days ago, we announced yet another drawdown of military assistance. That included ammunition for HIMARS systems, counter-drone equipment, munitions, Javelin anti-tank and anti-armor systems. And there will be more coming in coming weeks. So we’re going to continue to stand by Ukraine as they try to defend themselves against these sorts of attacks.
With that, we can take some questions.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our first question will go to Zeke with the AP.
Q Thanks, John, for doing this. A couple weeks ago, you had said that the U.S. was putting forward a new bridging proposal to close the remaining gaps between the two sides. Is the proposal that’s being developed this week, the President is actively engaged in, is that a new proposal or is that just a refinement of what has already been on the table now for some weeks and, really, in essence, some months?
And then, separately, do you have any specific reaction to the Israeli Prime Minister’s comments yesterday, sort of drawing the line on holding the Philadelphi Corridor?
And then, can you offer a little bit more clarity on the President’s comments that Netanyahu isn’t doing enough to get this deal? Is a deal possible while Netanyahu remains in power? Thank you.
MR. KIRBY: The answer to your third question is: Yes, of course, there’s a deal possible. And the President wouldn’t be personally engaged the way he is and he wouldn’t have taken the time over the weekend to meet with his team if he didn’t believe that that was, in fact, an outcome that we can achieve.
I won’t get into the details of the proposal that we are working on, but we continue to work on it. And it won’t come as a surprise to anybody that when you’re involved in negotiations, particularly at high stakes like this, there’s a lot of back-and-forth, and there’s amendments offered and there’s amendments rejected, and there’s text that changes from time to time. That work continues, and I’m just not going to get into the details of what it looks like or what it may look like if we’re successful. But, yes, absolutely, it’s possible.
And again, I think — not that we didn’t have a sense of urgency before; we certainly did — but the killings over the weekend, the executions is the only way to put it, just underscores for us how important it is to keep that work alive and keep going.
I’m not going to get into a debate with the Prime Minister of what he said over the weekend about the Philadelphi Corridor. The deal itself, the proposal, including the bridging proposal that we started working with — you guys know this; I’m not telling you anything that isn’t out there publicly — included the removal of Israeli Defense Forces from all densely populated areas, and that includes those areas along that corridor. That’s the proposal that Israel had agreed to. And again, we’re going to continue to work on this as hard as we can.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Steve Holland with Reuters.
Q John, what’s the strategy behind referring to this as a “final proposal”?
MR. KIRBY: I’m just — I’m not using that phrase, Steve, so I can’t — I can’t speak to what strategy might be in place.
Q (Inaudible.)
MR. KIRBY: Well, I’m not using that phrase. And there is a — there is a proposal we’re working on. It is still being negotiated, which means that the sides are still talking about the text itself.
But we believe — as I said to Zeke, we believe that we can get there. We believe we can close this. And we absolutely have to do it with as much speed as possible, especially given what happened over the weekend.
Q And we’ve seen a number of protests in Israel in response to the death of the hostages. Are you hoping these protests will put pressure on Netanyahu to do more to try to get a deal?
MR. KIRBY: Well, I’ll let the Israeli people speak for themselves, Steve. I’m not qualified nor would I get involved in domestic issues there in Israel.
I think what happened over the weekend should serve as a reminder to everyone how evil Hamas is and how deadly, how lethal the situation is for all those hostages. And it should underscore for everybody, and I think it does — I think it does in Israel; I think it does in the region; it certainly does here, inside the administration and in the United States — how important it is to get this deal in place and to get those hostages released, get them out, get them back with their families, where they belong.
So, again, I won’t speak to domestic issues in Israel, and I certainly wouldn’t speak for the Israeli people. I can only tell you that, speaking for President Biden, he’s going to stay 110 percent focused on seeing if we can’t get this over the finish line and to do so as soon as humanly possible.
Q Thank you, John.
MR. KIRBY: Yes, sir.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Selina with ABC.
Q Hi, John. Thanks so much for doing this. I know you don’t want to talk about the specifics of this, quote, “final proposal,” but senior administration officials are saying that there could be a possibility, if that fell apart, that the U.S. could walk away from leading these discussions. Is that a feasible reality, of the U.S. walking away? Is there any world where that could happen — you know, just considering the stakes that are at play here for the U.S., considering some of these hostages are American?
MR. KIRBY: We want to get them all released, Selina. We want to get them released as soon as possible. Today would be a great day to do that. They should never have been taken in the first place by Hamas. And Hamas bears the responsibility for their taking and for the lives that have already been lost and for the health and welfare of those who are still alive. We want to get them out. We want to get them out now.
I am simply going to refuse to speculate about what might happen or what might not happen as we are involved, as you and I are speaking, in constant consultations to get this deal over the finish line. The less I say, the better on that. And I’m certainly not going to speculate about what might or might not happen.
I’ll tell you what needs to happen. What needs to happen is the deal to get closed. What needs to happen is the hostages to get home. What needs to happen is more humanitarian assistance in. And this deal would provide an extraordinary amount of additional humanitarian assistance to the suffering people of Gaza, the people who are suffering in Gaza because Mr. Sinwar decided to break a ceasefire, a deal that was in existence on the 6th of October. And what needs to happen is an end to the fighting. And that’s what we’re focused on.
Q So, just another follow-up. You’ve said these similar remarks before about how this needs to happen, it’s going to happen, we’re close. Why is this time different? Is there a sense that there is a greater sense of urgency that this could actually be achieved?
And number two, the UK is suspending some arms exports to Israel. What is the official White House reaction to that? And does the White House have any plans to follow suit to increase pressure on Israel?
MR. KIRBY: Yeah, I never said it will happen. I’ve said we believe it can happen. We believe that we’re close enough, that the gaps are narrow enough that it could happen. And that remains the case today.
And we have always had a sense of urgency about getting this deal — well, I shouldn’t say “always.” Since it was — since the President laid it out there publicly at the end of May, we have had a high sense of urgency to get it over the finish line, and we’ve been working very, very diligently over these last few months to do that. That work will continue. It will continue with the same sense of importance and energy that we’ve been applying to it.
But, certainly, the work is — the importance of that work is now underscored by the brutal execution of these innocent hostages over the weekend, including an American. Those lives were just recently taken. And I’d be lying to you if I said that the work going on yesterday, today, tomorrow, and the days ahead are not going to be informed or shaped or colored by our own grief and sorrow and shock and outrage about what Hamas did. I couldn’t — I couldn’t say that it wouldn’t be.
So, there has been a sense of urgency; there will continue to be. And, clearly, what happened over the weekend underscores how important it is to get this done as quickly as possible.
On the UK, every nation can speak for themselves on how and to what degree that they support Israel. I’m certainly not going to comment one way or another on the decisions that our British counterparts made.
I can just tell you that, number one, we’re going to continue to do we have to do to support Israel’s defensive capabilities; that support continues today. Number two, we have, as I’ve said many times, reviewed individual reports as best we can and talking to the Israelis about individual reports about compliance with international humanitarian law. And as we speak, there’s been no determination by the United States that they have violated international humanitarian law.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Felicia with the Financial Times.
Q Hi, John. Thanks. Just to follow up on the UK decision, has there been any conversations between the White House and Number 10 or any other parts of the U.S. or American government about the decision, or any calls to read out?
MR. KIRBY: No calls to read out since they’ve announced their decision. They did give us a heads up that they were going to — that they had arrived at that decision and were going to announce it. So, we were aware.
Q And are you worried that any other — I guess this is maybe the first major Western ally of Israel’s to take this step. Is the U.S. worried that other countries might follow suit?
MR. KIRBY: I’ll tell you what we’re worried about. We’re worried about getting a deal to get the hostages home. We’re worried about getting more humanitarian assistance in. And we’re worried about finding an end to this conflict. We’re also worried about making sure we can continue to help Israel defend itself against what is clearly, and certainly should be a reminder to everybody about what happened over the weekend, a brutal, evil terrorist organization. That’s what we’re worried about.
We’ll let other nations decide for themselves if they’re going to support Israel and to what degree. That’s their decision. That’s what sovereignty is all about.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Karen with the Washington Post. One second. Our computer is malfunctioning.
Karen, you should be able to talk now.
Q Yeah, you’ve said several times now that the brutal killings over the weekend underscore the importance of getting this deal done. Prime Minister Netanyahu, in his remarks over the weekend, said sort of the opposite, that — he said: What it underscores is that whenever you show flexibility or give something to Hamas, this is what they do, and we’ve shown flexibility thus far and we’re not anymore — basically, he said.
Can you — how do you reconcile those two positions in terms of getting the negotiations completed?
MR. KIRBY: I’m not going to reconcile those two positions, Karen. That’s not my job. It’s not my place. I speak for this administration and for this President, and he has been rock-solid and consistent in pushing for his team to do everything they can to get this deal in place.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Tamara Keith with NPR.
Tam, you should be able to unmute yourself. Okay, we will try to come back to you later.
Our next question will go to Barak with Axios.
Q Hi. Thank you for doing this. John, two questions. First, if we can go back to what the President said yesterday when he said that he doesn’t think Prime Minister Netanyahu is doing enough to get a deal. What did he mean? What do you need Netanyahu to do that he’s not doing? Or what is Netanyahu doing that you think is not constructive for reaching a deal?
And the second thing, to go back to what you said about the Philadelphi Corridor. You said that the proposal includes the removal of IDF from all densely populated areas, including the Philadelphi Corridor. So, just to understand, do you mean during the first phase of the deal? Do you mean during the entire deal? Because in the next phases, all IDF forces need to be removed from the Philadelphi Corridor.
MR. KIRBY: Right.
Q And Netanyahu said yesterday that he will not remove the IDF from the Philadelphi Corridor ever. So he did not speak only about the first phase of the deal; he spoke about it indefinite. So, I’m trying to understand better what exactly is the U.S. position on the issue of the Philadelphi Corridor on phase one of the deal, on phase two of the deal, and going forward.
MR. KIRBY: Look, it’s all in the proposal, Barak. And you’ve read the proposal, same as me.
Q Yeah, I know. But, John, the proposal — the last proposal, including the map that the U.S. approved, included the deployment of the IDF along the Philadelphi Corridor. That’s what I’m saying. And not only in densely populated areas. And the U.S. signed off on this map. That’s why I’m asking what’s the exact U.S. position regarding the Philadelphi Corridor. Because I don’t think that the map that the U.S. has agreed on is the same — reflects the same position you just said.
MR. KIRBY: I’m not going to get into negotiating this thing in public. You know I’m not going to do that. The deal says that they have to remove IDF from all densely populated areas in phase one, and that includes densely populated areas around — or adjacent to the Philadelphi Corridor, or where it intersects with those densely populated areas. That’s what the proposal says. That’s the proposal that was put forth at the end of May.
I’m not going to get into amendments one way or another that have subsequently been discussed. I’m not going to negotiate this in public one way or the other.
And as for your first question, the President has in numerous conversations with the Prime Minister, as well as our counterparts in Qatar and Egypt, stressed the importance of doing everything we can to actualize, to conclude the proposal that, again, was an Israeli proposal agreed to at the end of May.
And we — he charged his team on Saturday — I’m sorry, over the weekend he charged his team to do everything that they could to see what we can do to get this over the finish line.
I understand it would be satisfying if I were to give a list of everything everybody should do outside the United States to make that happen, but I hope you can understand I’m not going to do that. We’ve got to find a way to come to closure on this thing. We are close enough that that is possible. We believe that it’s an outcome that can be achieved. But as I’ve said many times: In order to do that, it requires compromise and it requires leadership from everybody. And I’ll leave it at that.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Neria with Israel Channel 13.
Q Hey, Kirby. Thank you so much for doing that. During Netanyahu’s speech/press conference last night, he said he told Sinwar forget about the Philadelphi Corridor. I heard some officials saying that this could be the end for a possibility for a hostages deal. So where do you get your optimism from?
And do you think that it was (inaudible) for the Prime Minister to say that?
And another question. I do hear that the American hostages’ families are asking the U.S. administration to try and release their hostages in case Israel doesn’t want a hostages deal. Can you tell us where does this stand?
MR. KIRBY: I won’t speculate about anything, not even the deal that we’re working on, at this point. We still believe that that is the best way to get all the hostages back with their families, is to get this deal in place. And as I said earlier, we believe we’re close enough and that the gaps are narrow enough to achieve that outcome.
It’s not optimism, it’s pragmatism. And it’s based on just looking at where we are, how far we’ve been able to come, and an essential belief that, practically speaking, these gaps can be narrowed.
But, look, I can’t, nor would I ever, guarantee to you all that — a certain outcome. We just believe that it is an outcome that’s possible.
Q But is the U.S. working on such an option of releasing the American hostages?
MR. KIRBY: We are working on a proposal that would release all the hostages, including the American hostages, and that is the proposal that we’ve been talking about in the region last week, and it was the same proposal that the President met with his team over the weekend to discuss. That is what we’re working on.
Q Thank you so much, Kirby.
MR. KIRBY: Yep.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Jacob with the Times of Israel.
Q Hi. Thanks for doing this. To just follow up on a previous question: You said that the offer that Israel agreed to includes a withdrawal of IDF forces from heavily populated areas, including those areas along the Philadelphi Corridor. Does that mean that in areas that aren’t heavily populated along the corridor, the U.S. supports or is okay with Israel staying there? That’s one question.
Next, just being — you said you’re not using the term “final” to talk about the bridging proposal, but Brett had a briefing with us — it was on background — but he said several times that they’re calling it a final bridging proposal. So is the White House now walking back from that terminology?
And then, you were asked about, lastly, reports that the U.S. could walk away from the talks. I know in the past you’ve said “we’ll never walk away,” but that wasn’t your response this time. So I just wanted to see if you’re — if there’s anything we should be learning from that, how you respond to that question. Thank you.
MR. KIRBY: What I’m hoping you can take away from this discussion today is how seriously we’re continuing to try to achieve a successful outcome here. That’s what I want you to take away from it.
On the Philadelphi Corridor, I think I could point you to what the Israelis have said publicly about their belief in the need to have some security along that corridor. The proposal says that they have to remove themselves to the east from densely populated areas. And that core, essential element of the proposal has not changed. But the Israelis have said publicly that they believe that even in so doing, that they would need some security along that corridor, and I’d point you to what they’re saying about it.
Q And on the terminology about “final” and “not final” bridging proposal?
MR. KIRBY: I’ve already answered — I’ve answered the question.
Q Okay, thank you.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Nathan with KAN.
Q Hey, thanks. I’d like to know if the President has any plans of speaking to Netanyahu directly to clarify the issue of Philadelphi in the agreement. He said yesterday that that will happen eventually. But if this is such an urgent issue, can we expect any kind of direct contact between them immediately?
And also, is the U.S. in any kind of contact with the Israeli opposition and with the protest movement in Israel?
MR. KIRBY: I don’t have anything on the schedule in terms of another call with the Prime Minister, but I think you can safely assume that there will be additional conversations between these two leaders. And when that happens, we will do what we do every time, which is let you know it’s happening and give you a readout when it’s happened. I just don’t have anything to speak to at this time.
And we are not involving ourselves, nor would we, in Israeli domestic issues. So I’d leave it at that.
MODERATOR: Thank you. Our next question will go to Nadia.
Q Thank you, Sam. John, the President said on seven different occasions that we are very close to conclude this deal, we’re closer than ever, we’re closer than three days ago. I’m just wondering how — what is your understanding of what went wrong? And why do you believe that a deal could be achieved, considering that both Sinwar and Netanyahu are not willing to compromise on fundamental issues?
And my second question is: Some of the families, the hostage families, are actually blaming the administration. They’re saying that you did not exert enough pressure on Netanyahu, you didn’t use any leverage to make sure that the deal could be concluded a long time ago, and that could have spared the killing of the six hostages, despite the fact that Hamas executed them, but there could have been a way to spare their life. How do you respond to this? Thank you.
MR. KIRBY: We were looking for that way as hard as humanly possible. And we certainly understand the grief, the sorrow, the anger that they feel, because we feel it too. But that doesn’t take away the incredible efforts that we expended to try to get this deal finished, and it certainly doesn’t diminish the efforts going forward, which will remain consistent, steadfast, and aggressive, to try to get this deal in place.
And when we said at the time, and I’ve said it many times myself, that we’re as close as we’ve ever been, that the gaps are narrow, those were accurate statements. They were — they were true. But we also never said it was going to be easy. You can be that close. And as I’ve said before, when you get to that close, when you get to that level of detail, that’s when the horse trading gets incredibly difficult. That’s when the task of negotiators really intensifies.
And we’re still, we believe, in that space right now, where we have gaps that can be narrowed, but there’s no guarantee that they will be. We just have to keep working as hard as we have been, and we will. There’s not going to be any slackening of effort from the United States to try to see if we can’t hammer this out.
Q And how do you respond to the fact that no leverage was used against Netanyahu? Could you have used any pressure, publicly or publicly, to change his position?
MR. KIRBY: We’ve been working with Israel and Qatar and Egypt — the latter two, of course, have direct communications with Hamas — to do everything we can to find language that works for both sides to bring this deal to a close. And that work was not completely — it was not completely fruitless. We were able to narrow the gaps and get close. But obviously, nothing is negotiated until everything is negotiated, and we haven’t concluded.
So it’s not like — it’s not like we haven’t worked hard to move both sides closer to a deal. And as I said, it doesn’t diminish the fact that we’re going to continue to work hard for that outcome.
MODERATOR: Thank you. And that is, unfortunately, all the time we have today. As always, if we weren’t able to get to you, please email the NSC Press distro and we’ll try to get back to you as soon as we can. Thanks, everyone.
12:57 P.M. EDT
